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People are buying gold now to hedge their own paper bets. Silver is not quite getting that bid. But it should if we go into a weaker economy, or the Fed decides to start easing again, or the world starts to really ease and print more money again.
Silver will play catch up hard and fast. Proportionally, it can go up much further and faster than gold in the current market. Rob: So, given that silver is relatively more cost-effective for, say, people who are looking to enter into the world of precious metals investing, do you think it might be an idea for people listening to buy silver with the idea, potentially, of either holding onto it or swapping it into gold when that gold-to-silver ratio becomes more favorable?
Dana: Yes, that's a very smart strategy. Silver is cheaper, so if you've never bought precious metals before it's an easy way to get started, to get used to the physical precious metals process. We're a national mail-order business so we do business through the mail with most of our clients here in the United States.
Most people are a little leery about sending real money to someone they don't know. They're not buying a pair of pants; they're buying an investment. So silver is a good starter metal because it is relatively inexpensive. If you spend a few hundred dollars, you can get 20 ounces in 1-oz.
They all make 1-oz. You could also buy silver bars—1-oz. It's a great way to get started and you're getting, I think, an excellent value because silver is so cheap relative to gold. We do suggest that arbitrage strategy at times when the market is at extremes. In the last 10 years, the gold-to-silver ratio has been as low as about 55 to 1, where silver was much stronger relative to gold.
At that point in time it made sense to sell silver and buy gold. Right now, it makes more sense to sell a little gold and buy silver or start with silver because it's so cheap relative to gold. Rob: Yeah, well, that's exactly what I've done—as someone who has a lot more faith in precious metals compared to, and this is my personal opinion, cryptocurrencies.
This neatly leads me into talking about cryptocurrencies. Do you find that the proliferation, say, of Bitcoin has challenged flows of money into precious metal investing? Now that Bitcoin is regarded by some leading luminaries in the industry as a safe haven, whereas gold silver were the traditional ones? To be honest with you, our sales suffered as a result.
We had several customers who had big holdings of gold and silver, and they dumped some of it to buy Bitcoin. I don't know if they got out at the top or whether they're still holding big losses right now. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have allowed people who are independently minded, which are precious metals buyers, to use a currency that's not a government-backed currency and make private transactions amongst individuals.
That is a big draw for the cryptocurrencies. Younger people are much more drawn to the cryptocurrencies than precious metals in the current market. So, we've seen a lot of younger people, you know, Millennials, who have been drawn into Bitcoin and some of the others, and it is a viable way to trade. But I don't know if they're good investments yet.
The thing that concerns me about the cryptocurrencies is they're eminently repeatable and replaceable. It's like beta versus VHS years and years ago. You don't know which one is going to be left standing when all is said and done. Governments around the world are competing, as are major companies, to create their own cryptocurrencies. The dust hasn't settled. I would be very wary of using them as an investment, but to trade privately, yes, it's an excellent way to go.
But it's not a replacement for gold and silver, which are the oldest and most trusted currencies of last resort. Rob: I mean, what is interesting about cryptocurrencies is around Christmas the last trading day for stocks trading day before Christmas , suddenly Bitcoin absolutely plunged.
I thought this was smart money quietly pulling out while the rest of the world was suitably engaged with Christmas. The bubble popped. When you look at bubbles and how they historically formed, certainly Bitcoin in its current form could be classed as a bubble that's popped. Now people who are riding on losses have that horrible wait in purgatory.
They don't know when they'll have to realize that loss. If they are hoping to make a profit just not knowing how long they have to wait for that profit must be quite agonizing. Rob: The Morgan silver dollar is generally viewed by coin collectors and numismatists as having dual benefit. People can simultaneously own a coin that appreciates in its historical, collector value—and that is of course, dependent of the grade of the coin—as well as its underlying bullion value.
As many of the listeners here are from the United Kingdom, what would you recommend as an appropriate alternative for Brits for silver coins? Not so much the new Elizabeth sovereigns because they're modern pieces. There are not as many good options in silver that I'm aware of for old collector coins in Europe.
In Europe, things are not considered old unless they are from the s or s. Most of the coins minted from the late s into the s and early s don't have the equivalent collector value as U. In part, that's because there are so many different places where they were made. In what's now the eurozone, you have 17 or 18 countries that mint made gold coins up to , , and So, you can buy these old British sovereign, Swiss 20 francs, French 20 francs, Denmark 20 Kroners, Dutch 10 guilders basically at gold value today for historically old gold coins.
We essentially had only had four denominations in two different designs from to Conversely, you have so many countries making their own gold coins in Europe during the same period that there's a lot more choices. And a lot of coins that are truly rare were minted in the s and earlier, which is really where the numismatic market is in Europe.
This doesn't mean there aren't good or great European collector coins to be owned in the s, but they're fewer and farther between. Does that make sense? Rob: Okay, so it makes perfect sense, absolutely. I mean, I think a lot of people listening would, apart from the historical value, appreciate the underlying bullion value increasing over time.
But the historical value, if it's a "hybrid" coin, can increase over time regardless of the bullion value, based on its historical value, that's the sweet spot in my opinion. What do you reckon? Dana: Yes, I agree completely. We do a big business in the old U.
Right now, premiums for those coins, the collector premiums, are as low as we've seen. This is for two reasons. First, we've we've had a complete reset with the gold price. So, the bullion value of these coins is risen dramatically, compressing premiums. Second, now that we're in a bit of a better economic situation and people are going back into traditional paper assets, the premiums on the classic gold coins have compressed further.
We haven't quite adjusted for the reset and the gold price in the collector-coin market here in the United States yet. When we do, the premiums will go a lot higher than they are right now. There's a lot of value to be had right now in the old U. I see a lot of value there. Rob: As we knock on the door of another all-time-high with the Dow Jones Industrial Average, and we are due for a recession, given that is has been over 10 years since the last, where do you see prices of gold of the silver moving forward?
Dana: Let me just say one other thing really quickly. As far as demand goes, you know it's unusual because we're a little confounded right now in our market. Premiums are so low on some of these older gold coins and I looked back to see if there were parallels in the past, and there are.
If you look at how many 1-oz. Gold Eagles the US Mint makes on an annual basis as a proxy for physical gold demand in the United States, we've got three years where demand for physical gold was very low—, , All three times, the stock market hit record highs during those years.
This is a perfect analogy for why demand is down. When the stock market is strong, the general public doesn't care about gold. People tend to chase markets, not buy fundamental value on the cheap. The public was all-in, just like they are now with stocks. So, contrarian investors can do exceedingly well in the physical gold market right now.
What is that old expression from Warren Buffett? You should be greedy when people are fearful and fearful when other people are greedy. Certainly, looking at equities, there's a massive state of hubris now. Rob: As interest rates from the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England are steadily increasing, I think this is also having an impact on gold. People who are holding it, maybe paying a storage fee, are thinking, well, I could get a return on my money elsewhere, even if it's in a bank, even though the interest rates are not particularly high like they were 10 or 20 years ago.
Dana: Gold is unloved at the moment, relatively speaking. A wide variety of x milling machine options are available to you There are suppliers who sells x milling machine on Alibaba mainly located in Asia. The top countries of suppliers are India China and India from which the percentage of x milling machine supply is get price.
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